Answer Me This, Flist

[anogete]

I have a question for you, flist.

I was involved in an LJ discussion in a community yesterday, and the crux of it was finding humor through making fun of badly written or executed books/movies/programs/etc. When was was in high school, I was friends with people who spent all of their time making fun of the world - the people, the school we went to, the classwork, the city, everything. They never wanted to discuss real interests with me, nor did they seem to have a true passion for anything. By the time I was a senior, I had cut ties with all of my friends for this reason. I thought I was better off on my own than with people who were so mean, who spent their time making fun of things to make themselves feel better about their empty lives.

Now, let me say that I don't think that everyone who makes fun of something is doing it in a negative way, nor do I think they are all doing it for self defense purposes. Sometimes it is just simply finding humor in a situation. However...

I have never read a book or fanfiction, watched a movie or television program, or gone to a social function with the sole purpose of gathering information so I could make fun of it, be it in my head or to others in person or on the internet. There are so many wonderful things in this world that will entertain and/or touch me. Why would I spend my valuable time on something that I intend to viciously poke fun at? If it's bad, then I don't read it or watch it. Why would I? Humor can be found in so many other things. It doesn't make sense to spend my time being mean. And making fun of something that you consider to be sub par or not measuring up to your high standards is being mean, especially when that something wasn't intended to be bad in the first place. I know, I know... Some movies, books, fanfics are intended to be bad, and that is another matter entirely. The creator has made that piece of media for people to watch/read and giggle over. It is humor. I think it is fairly evident when I come across situations such as these. The movie/book was made to be lovingly poked fun at by fans.

Let's stick with the book example. Why would someone who dislikes a particular book read that book (and other books associated with it) simply to poke fun? Why not read a book you enjoy? If you're looking for a laugh, why not read a humorous book you enjoy? I don't understand why anyone would read something they consider horrible just for the sake of making fun. It comes across as very childish to me. I want to read something that will become important to me, something I will love and enjoy. I don't want to read something stupid and then act like I'm cool because I'm totally making fun of it. How dumb is that?

So, yeah... I guess that's my question. Do you read/watch things for the sole purpose of poking fun at them when you aren't a fan of the creator or piece of media? And, if so, why do you do it? I'm not trying to attack; I'm just trying to understand. Because, on this, my brain just does not compute.

Comments

[anogete.livejournal.com]

I guess I just don't find that sort of thing funny. I've never made it through an episode of MST: 3K. To me, it is terribly boring. I usually don't want B movies either, for the same reason. I know many of those movies are made to be tongue-in-cheek and to be lovely poked fun at, but usually it just isn't funny. Like the Pottersues (or whatever it is called) community - I've never read it because it seems like a big waste of time. If I want to laugh, I'll watch a funny movie or read a Janet Evanovich novel. I don't want to read part of some bad piece of fanfiction. What a waste that is.

I think this all begins and ends with my lack of time. I have soooo many things I'm interested in, and I'm rarely ever bored because I'm always pressed for time to fit them all in. I work full time, and when I get home I have a long list of things I want to do and need to do. I'm never rushed, and most of my tasks are for my enjoyment, but it still feels like I have to put aside things I want to do to get to other things I want to do. So, me reading a bad fic or a book just for the lolz seems like such a waste of my time when I could read a good book for the lolz, if you know what I mean.

Because of my past experience, reading something just to make fun of it for being cliche or stupid or silly comes across as being kind of snotty and mean-spirited. Like, "Oh, I'm so much better than you because I don't write or even like crap like this. Haha, this is really sucky." I'm not saying that's the way it is, but that's definitely the way it comes across to me. That's why I have no interest in things like that. I spent my time trying to be an elitist in high school, and it never stuck with me. I never liked it. If I hated something, I just preferred not to talk about it, or just mention in it passing.

[falco-conlon.livejournal.com]

I've found there's a difference between high school elitism and MST:3K

It is different brands of humor, at the root of it.

[anogete.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm sure there is a difference. I wasn't saying they were one in the same. It's just that I don't find either of them very funny. MST:3K humor isn't malicious or mean-spirited. And that's pretty obvious to me. However, I think so many of the instances in which people poke fun at things online are intended to be mean-spirited.

[falco-conlon.livejournal.com]

Oh that's for sure. I follow pottersues, but have fallen back a little because I've found the comments lacking. They haven't even been particularly mean as of late, just boring. Plus the new(ish) person who runs pottersues just isn't funny at all.

[anogete.livejournal.com]

Lately, I've noticed how mean people are online. No one has been mean to me in particular - that's not where this is coming from. But I have heard about and seen several instances were people hiding behind their computer screens with anonymous names just say these awful things to others or about others. I looooove the internet. Crazy love it. But sometimes there are some really nasty sides to it. I don't know if people actually feel this way and hide it in their real lives for fear of appearing mean, or if the internet exacerbates these negative emotions. I never change my personality when I'm on the internet. The things I say in my blog or on message boards, I'd say to someone in person. Thankfully, the vast majority of my flist is the same way. Or at least I think they are. I've never met anyone, so I wouldn't know for sure.

Anyway, we need more wuv and positivity, man!

[falco-conlon.livejournal.com]

I don't know if people actually feel this way and hide it in their real lives for fear of appearing mean, or if the internet exacerbates these negative emotions

A mix of both. The anonymity of the internet makes it very easy for people to shine light on their nasty prejudices and tendencies because they can't be held accountable for it like they can in real life. Because of this fact it attracts, unfortunately, the scum of the earth. Ever been to 4chan? A cess pit of foul racism, sexism and cruelty. It's really almost frightening.

[anogete.livejournal.com]

OMG - Someone to ask! What in the world is 4chan? I've heard about it from several sites/venues, but I have no idea what it is. I guess that's a good thing since, apparently, it's no place for me.

[falco-conlon.livejournal.com]

It's a massive message board that's hosted out of japan, I think. 4 Channel. It's where Anonymous came from and most of the internet memes that are so popular now (lolcats, ORLY owl etc etc). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan

[anogete.livejournal.com]

Ahhh... I had no idea what it was. I think I assumed it was a genre or something. Obviously, way off.

[falco-conlon.livejournal.com]

As for ABVH, I definitely stopped reading once I realized how much I hated the books. I guess there are some books that I truly dislike and I do avoid them like the plague, but then there are others that are just unintentionally silly and absurd that I find them hilarious. Same with movies.

[anogete.livejournal.com]

If I read a book, then I like it in some way, at the very least. It doesn't have to be the best book I've ever read, but it does need to be something I enjoy. The ABVH books just started (1) pissing me off and (2) turning my stomach. Which is why I stopped reading after CS. I never read ID or anything afterward. I actually don't even know what has transpired since then since I stopped following on the blogs and boards.

Anyway, this whole discussion was started because of a conversation I had with someone about Twilight. They considered it to be complete and utter trash, but did admit to reading it for the lolz. So they could poke fun at it with their friends. I'm not really defending Twilight. It isn't amazing literature and I wouldn't consider it a favorite of mine, but I liked the first two books. I liked them, not loved them. I thought they were very addictive, and I can see why so many teenage girls love them. That's really beside the point, though. I don't feel the need to defend Twilight. If people want to hate it, then more power to them. I just didn't understand the mentality of, "I'll read it so I can be cool and make fun of it since so many other people think it sucks ass, too." Why waste your time, you know. Those suckers are 500 pages long. If I had gotten halfway into Twilight and hated it, then my ass would have put it down and moved onto something else.

[falco-conlon.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you. I guess the difference for me is that when I read I book I hate, I stop reading it, but when I read a book that is unintentionally ridiculous and makes me laugh for reasons the author didn't mean (romance novels, for example) I keep reading because they are entertaining me, just not in the way the author intended.

[anogete.livejournal.com]

I can understand why you'd read something for the fun of seeing what comes next. I guess I just can't do that. With Twilight, I think people just can't put aside their sense of disbelief. And I don't know whether that is a symptom of the buzz (good and bad) around the novel or if they just don't like the novel. Flat out, the books aren't as good as the Harry Potter books. I'll say that and stand by it. However, I really did like them. I got sucked into the world they occur in. I read the first novel in about five days, on and off. I started the second novel on a Tuesday morning when I got to work. Because I wasn't busy, I read it all day long, then I read it when I got home. I couldn't stop myself. And, the first 150 pages of it actually depressed me (and even made me feel sick). Not for bad writing reasons, but for good writing reasons. In the first part of the second book, Bella is extremely depressed. I sympathized with her because I had gone through something similar in my life. And, from the writing, I think Stephenie Meyer has probably also gone through something similar or she wouldn't have been able to capture those emotions so well. So, if it had enough of an impact on my emotions to depressed me for an entire day, then it can't be that horribly written.

Anyway, I understand why some people don't like it for multiple reasons. However, I do not understand this intense hatred for me. Sometimes it feels like people want to drastically react to something they don't like because many other people do like it. All these fandomsecrets about hating Twilight? Like, woah. Why take so much time to make a secret and post it anonymously if you're just saying you don't like a book? That's a bit obsessive to me. I don't like tons of things, but I don't make secrets about them. I just shove them to the side and move on to things I do like.

Speaking of fandom secrets - I want to post secrets, but I don't have any. I think I've posted maybe three since I've joined. Every time I think of something to submit, I realize that it isn't really a secret, and I'd post it on my journal without any shame.

[falco-conlon.livejournal.com]

fandom secrets bugs me for a number of reasons, none of them important.

I haven't read twilight so I can't say anything about whether it's good or bad. I think what you're seeing, and what is often the case when people say they hate something, is a reaction to the fandom itself. The Twilight fandom has made itself a quick reputation for being wanky, loud and obnoxious. They treat the books as the second coming and talk about them as though Stephanie Meyer is the first person ever to write about wangsty vampires and their human girlfriends. It's frustrating and surprisingly difficult to avoid because the fandom has become to prevalent. That's my reaction to the books, anyway. I need to read them before I actually decide whether or not I hate the book itself or just the fandom.

And I can separate them. I hate the HP fandom, but love the books. But sometimes what I see of a fandom makes me reeeaaalllyy dislike the source material. (SPN is a good example of that. I wouldn't have such a problem with the show if its fans weren't so infuriating)

[anogete.livejournal.com]

I tend to shy away from social fandom stuff, with the exception of LJ. I am (was) reasonably active in the HP community, but only in a very small section of it. Most with the gals at TPP, PotterPlace or the Snape/Hermione 'shippers. For the most part, those people are women between the ages of 25 and 55. So, the wank is considerably less because of the types of people involved. That doesn't mean they're immune to it, though. And age isn't really an indicator of maturity either.

So, I don't know much about the Twilight fandom. I saw the secrets at fandomsecrets, but I don't really consider that to be a big part of the fandom. I've watched a few YouTube videos by fans of the novels. I've browsed and introduced myself at a message board, but I don't post often. The people I've had contact with seem nice. I haven't seen any fighting or wank. I've seen elbowing and ribbing, but it's all between friends. The fan base (regardless of age) seems to be more immature than what I am used to dealing with. Then again, some of the people on the PDS board when I was still running it were pretty immature, too. I'm not saying that as a bad thing, just a fact. They're content with their bubble of the world and they're a bit too easily excitable. I appreciate the enthusiasm for the novels and the fandom, though. Sometimes, it comes across as endearing. Anyway, from my minimal contact with the Twilight fandom, it doesn't appear to be as bad as some people make it out to be. The board I introduced myself at is mostly teenager girls. They're a bit naive and sheltered, but they're friendly toward each other and are friendly toward me. I don't think I'm going to make any best friends, but their enthusiasm over the novels is catching, and I actually like that it rubs off on me. Then again, I may just be lucky in the places I choose to hang around. I like to find the corners of the fandom, instead of popping up right in the middle of it.

[falco-conlon.livejournal.com]

The contact I've had has been overwhelmingly obnoxious. I've seen them on comment boards on the leaky cauldron, trying to convince HP fans that Twilight is more mature. I've seen them on the LJ community ohnotheydidn't spamming posts that didn't include whatisname Pattinson. I've seen them on f!s, I've seen them RP communities pissing and moaning when other players don't want to bow down to the hottness of Edward Cullen. I haven't seen them be wanky within the fandom, but every (big)fan I've come in contact with has tried to convert or just plain annoy once they realized not everyone was going to agree with them.

And I'm not even actively involved in Twilight or HP fandom. I've just found it surrounding me more and more these days.

[anogete.livejournal.com]

Wow, I had no idea. I'm not active in any fandom right now, so I guess that's why I haven't seen it. I stick to LJ when I get online. Mostly, I read while I'm in front of my computer, so I just hear the ding if I get mail or a message. I wish people could chill out and just enjoy themselves instead of trying to convert others or argue about what is better - book A or book B.

[falco-conlon.livejournal.com]

Me too :( I really have no problem with Twilight, and when I meet a fan, I'm not going to automatically assume that they're One Of Those, but I thing the strong reaction a ton of people are having to the book, is actually a reaction to the fandom. Not to say that the people on f!s don't need to get over it and stop posting secrets about how they hate it sooooo much and they don't understand how annnyone can like it ooommmmgggggg! It gets very very boring after awhile.